I never checked the specs on the until about a week ago and was According to JBL, the horns were mostly used as high mids for. JBL +. JBL , Tweeter/ Compression Driver from JBL. Write a user review · Product presentation. User reviews. Price engine. Classified Ads. I read a lot about JBL but nothing about the little brother. I sourced a very good pair for a reasonnable price. Any opinion welcome.
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Results 1 to 11 of Hello – I have a question about extending the upper range of some drivers. I have a pair that are mounted to horns in custom HF cabs. I replaced the diaphrams with factory ‘s almost jbbl years ago when I purchased them 2nd hand.
They have been in service as the high frequency drivers crossed at 2. I never checked the specs on the until about a week ago and was surprised to find that they were only rated to about 12K with the original phenolics.
Since then I’ve read a bit of anecdotal info about extending the range with newer diaphrams like the which is what I did – without realizing what I was doingbut nothing concrete 241 what HF can be achieved with the alnico magnets in the compared to using a or driver.
I would expect that the diaphram would make most of the difference in HF response, but dont know for sure. Also I havent been able to find any info on what is the natural roll off for the horns. Does anyone have experience with this?
I’ve never had a problem with the HF output and my RTA says they 4261 fine up to 20K – but that is with pink noise, which doesnt tell me if the output is colored or distorted. According to JBL, the horns were mostly used as high mids for vocal reproduction. The highs sound OK to me – but for all these years I’ve been blaming all kbl sound coloration that I hear on my mid packs and its certainly possible that the high packs are contributing as well. These days I still take the PA on the road now and then, and occasionally run it hard – but mostly it stays in my basement as a practice PA, in-house PA for parties, and oversized stereo system.
So I’m looking to improve the accuracy, without sacrificing too much SPL. The weak link 2641 the system sound fidelity has always been my mid packs – horn loaded PAS 10’s – which are good for filling up a big room, but sound kinda honky up close – so I’m getting ready to build some new mid-high cabinets with two front loaded 10’s on each side. I was planning to put the ‘s with the ‘s on top and get everything in a single mid-high cabinet, however I dont want to put a lot of effort into making my mids sound nice up front, only to find that the highs are not really cutting it.
Would there be an HF advantage to swapping the to a horn? Also, does the HF response of the diaphram degrade over time ie after 25 years, would there be any benefit to getting new diaphrams to improve HF response – even if the existing ones seem to be working fine?
Hi Hey there Kevin and welcome to the LH forum. That horn is known to have a bit of the classic bell activity due to its metal construction. Some damping material in the cavity above and below the front lip is the cure. Usually car body sound deadening mastic is the preferred option here.
Vintage JBL drivers – worth anything?
24611 will tell you more re the polar charactristics of that hornit will tend to beam somewhat at higher frequencies and some of the more modern horns will do a better job. In all probability your mid box could use some taming if the system is a bit shouty so you are on the right tack. I’m not entirely sure that 2 x 10 is the way to go here. You might want to look at what JBL jb been doing lately with pro boxes.
There is a ton of info in the forum and on the web about this driver. Nice and easy to implement a single 12″ whether you use it in a horn or normal it will do the job for you and is W rated so its pretty bombproof. You might want to give 24611 some more info re your crossover situation, amps etcthere are folks here with way more knowledge than me that will chime in with the real down and dirty. It is the case that some of that old gear can be made to sound very very good indeed.
Maybe come 4261 lower with that changeover. I’m fairly sure that replacing the diaphrams with ‘s increased the HF response, because the system has never lacked for high end.
I havent tweaked the crossover points in a long time, but my recollection is that 2. One of the reasons that I want to stick with 10s for the mids, is that the ones I’ve seen that are made to be midrange drivers tend to be reasonably flat until K or so. I’ve got two pairs of EVMB’s in ported front loaded cabinets on the bottom, crossed at hz, so I dont really need the low frequency response of a driver like the The C’s that I’m using now actually sound pretty good in the back of a decent sized room – its up front where they are lacking.
Since I dont really need the long throw so much anymore, I’m hoping that putting them in sealed front loaded boxes will get rid of the honk up front. About 20 years ago I moved the bass drivers out of scoops and into front loaded, ported cabinets, which made a huge improvement in the low end response, with only a minor loss of volume.
So I’m hoping that I can do something similar with the mids and highs and 24461 better accuracy from the same components by building new cabinets that are better designed for the application. However, its only in the past 241 or so that I realized that for all these years I’ve been running the ‘s a lot higher then they were originally mbl, and I’d hate to build a new set of cabs, only to move the weak spot bjl the mids to the highs – so I’m kbl that there is someone on this forum who has used s with newer diaphrams and can confirm that this will work or not One advantage 22461 going with a horn like the is that its physically not as wide as the ‘s – so I could make the mid-high boxes a little narrower.
The main advantage to the ‘s is that I’ve already got ’em. Plus, they are old school and look kinda cool. But unlike the ‘s, I havent been jnl to find any info on what the frequency response for the is supposed to be. Better or worse than bjl ? Or is there another horn that would be better suited as the main HF horn in a smallish watt per side system that will sound good close to the front and still be able to project into a medium size room on occasion?
Just my 2 cents worth of opinion Jbll Pro for home use! Hi Hblcheers for the details. In each case you are running a deal higher than the optimal band for each driver in a hi fi sense I would be looking at or less for your 15’s and bring your HF down to or even Thats still high enough to not stress the HF driver in PA use but takes better advantage of the horns’ abilities.
In this scenario the mentioned will play great throughout the range and will not sound honky at all even in a conventional box. Ubl fact it will tolerate a fairly small sealed box in this application and given that you can ladle power into that driver261 is not really an issue. As far as your HF driver is concernedsince you have installed a dia in there you effectively have a and it should jbll cleanly as high as you will need to go.
The is a Radial horn and has different traits compared to a which is a CD horn. The Rane carries compensation for a CD horn I assume?? If not you will need to think around that issue as these CD horns need a rising respose from hbl amp to play a flat response to the room. I say stick with the but ibl a bit of damping on itthey do tend to ring somewhat. Years since I had my mitts on any mind you.
This is tweeter territory. That spec sheet is jl what got me concerned in the first place, because the HF response on the seems to roll 246 a lot faster than the However the response curves were done with a driver, which could be responsible for much of the rolloff because it quits at 15K. I havent been able to find any plots of the horns with a full range driver. I’d like to think I’m getting better performance from the horns with the diaphrams, but maybe not.
If no one at this forum is currently using the s and can vouch for them in this application which I suppose should tell me something then I might try to find a reasonable priced spectrum analyzer for my laptop and check the response myself. I may be able to get a ballpark idea with a sign wave generator and my outboard RTA. Looking into this some more, it appears that JBL made the switch from radials to bi-radials sometime in the 80s, presumably to reduce HF beaming.
My Rane does have EQ setting for CD horns, but I’d have to pull it and open the case to change it, which would be a PIA, so hopefully its not really necessary for the s. Jl may see if I can find a pair of 2nd hand clones or maybe borrow a pair of loaded s.
Presumably, JBL wouldnt have replaced the with the unless there was a clear sonic advantage to doing so, but maybe the s were just cheaper and easier to cast. If I keep the s, I might just fly them since I have 8 foot ceilings in the basement.
That would make the system harder to move, but I try to avoid that as much as possible these days anyway. Hadnt thought about making the s into beer cans, but now that you mention it, if I dont end up using the s and no one wants to buy em, these things will be worth a tidy sum at the scrap yard. I’ll see if tweaking my crossover points helps the sound of the existing cabinet setup, but I’m skeptical jhl this will help until I have better mid boxes.
I spent some time tweaking it when I front loaded my bass cabs 20 years ago – although at the time, my main priority was SPL. Thats why the low-mid is set a little high. I have more headroom in my bass cabinets, so this lets me push the midrange drivers harder in their band.
Jl advantage I see to having two 10s for the mid packs is that when the room is full, the bottom driver will be at about shoulder level which should cover the dance floor area fairly well and the top driver will be just slightly overhead, for reaching to the back of the room. I might even angle the bottom drivers into the room a little bit to improve the sound near the stage.
I’f I’m by myself or just a few friends over, ambient room noise is much less, volume is down and having the drivers front loaded should sound a jbp better now off to play with my crossover For now, I’m going to keep the jjbl at 2.
If I go lower, its hard to tell the difference in the room, but closer to the speaker stacks the high mids 1. Too harsh up close. Part of the problem is that the ‘s are right about at head level now.
When I rebuild my mid cabs, the ‘s will be further up overhead so wont tear your head off up close. If I can fly them, that should help even more.
Used jbl for Sale |
After 25 years, new diaphragms probably wouldnt hurt either. I searched through all the comments I could find on this site about the and it seems like the majority of folks think the was a bit of a dog, although there are some nice wood horns that have copied the shape. If I come up with anything notable, I’ll report back. IMHO the ‘s look better out of their cabs than in them, so I’m going to see if I can figure out a way to fly them naked without making them even more jvl to ringing.
That way, I can front load my mids now which should make the whole system sound better before before making final decision on the horns. Searching this forum, I saw there was a fairly big debate on the forum about 5 years ago on factory vs aftermarket diaphragms. At the time, the consensus seemed to be that factory sounded better, whether or not it was worth the 3x premium was subjective.
Without re-hashing an old topic, have any of the aftermarket mfgs notably stepped up their game in the past 5 years? I have 4 of the drivers. They were originally installed on horns with throat adapters over 4 cabinets loaded with ‘s. These were originally installed as a center cluster in a roller arena here around or so. In aboutwe were approached by ubl club about installing a system in the bar, so we 2641 them purchase these cabinets from the now closed roller rink.
Before installing them in the club, we retrofitted the horn drivers with diaphragms, which definitely extended the high frequency extension.